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Intro
Ladies and gentlemen, we are proud to
welcome to the Dangerous Ones,
Congressman Mark Pokean from Wisconsin's
second district. Congressman, hello. Hi.
Glad to be with you guys. Thank you so
much. Thanks for joining. We wanted to
start with Democratic messaging. Uh
something we talk a lot about on this
show and uh we were all at the DNC last
year uh in Chicago. It was electric. Uh
we all flew home. I was convinced we
were going to win. Uh and then we didn't
and it felt like 2016 all over again. Uh
Democrats have better ideas and a more
inclusive vision for the country, but
it's clearly not breaking through. Why
isn't Democratic messaging working? And
more importantly, what can the party do
right now to fix it before it's too
late? Well, I think November and now are
different. So, you know, November, um, I
think a dozen other countries that were
like us around the world, whoever was
the ruling party got thrown out because
we had inflation, uh, coming out of
COVID. You know, everything opened up at
once and we still had it in a few
lingering areas and, uh, half the people
in exit polls said they voted for the
economy, right? So, that was something
that was clearly wrong. Of course, right
now, the number one thing working
against Donald Trump is the economy. So,
we know that also is still something
that he's dealing with. I think the the
situation now is just trying to break
through, you know, the flooding of the
zone that Donald Trump has done and the
media grabs every single shiny lure on
uh of subjects when, you know, their
holy grail is this tax cut bill. It's a
tax break for Elon Musk and Donald Trump
and everyone who can afford to belong to
Mara Lago. And when you pull the bill,
the fact that you're going to cut health
care from 16 million people, cut food
assistance from 11 million people, cut
education funding, add trillions to the
debt, and then, you know, give crumbs to
most of us in in any kind of support. Uh
people don't like it. And in fact, it's
lopsided by 20 or 30 points depending on
the polling you look at. So, we've got
something great to talk about right now.
Now, the problem is Donald Trump is a
master at deflection and he's got us
talking about those three square blocks
in LA that had some issues making you
think of the state of California's on
fire and you I've seen that same car
burn about a hundred times on TV. You
know, that car is really got a lot of
lives. Y um but that's the problem is
they want to talk about that because
bluntly he pulls significantly better on
that than we do. We got to figure out a
little bit better how we talk about the
border. But every time he distracts us
from talking about what he's really
doing, which is pickpocketing us to give
Elon Musk and himself money, uh, we got
a problem. So, we have the good issue.
We just have to figure out how to to
break through the flooding of the zone.
And, uh, Congressman, I I consider
myself a progressive, a liberal. Um, and
I know you were the co-chair of the
Congressional, uh, progressive caucus
from 2017 to 2021. What do you say to
these people who argue that, oh, the the
party's become too progressive? What do
you say to those people? Yeah, honestly,
Trumps budget bill
that's coming out of DC from some
special interests that don't like what
progressives stand for, which is people.
Uh the special interests want to keep
special interesting. Uh 15,000 lobbyists
for a reason in in DC. And uh you know,
so a lot of these groups that get behind
candidates and have these paid super
PACs are out there to make sure that
those special interests continue to to
do well. and they're saying, "Oh, look,
it's progressives that are the problem."
Actually, prog, you know, people agree
with progressives on healthcare and on
tax policy and on the environment and on
education funding. Go down the list. So,
you know, it's really, you know, more
certain types of people uh that kind of
benefit from the structure and the the
the the special interest infrastructure
of DC that are the ones putting that
messaging out. But it's certainly not
real people in Wisconsin. It's certainly
not real people across the country. Um,
but this is a message they would love to
have you believe because that way those
poor pharmaceutical companies, they're
just trying to rub a couple nickels
together. Gosh darn it. Right. Yeah,
that's the problem. And and how um Yeah.
And so you mentioned the Trump's big
beautiful budget bill, which it's
actually a flaming pile of It's a
dumpster fire, you know, uh and and use
all the money going to the to the
billionaires and and stealing our
healthcare and all these things. Yeah,
it's terrible. Um
what what's the status of the bill
currently? uh so that everybody can be
aware like where where should their
attention be focused in terms of
advocacy and what should they be doing?
All federal Republican lawmakers um
bluntly because the House passed the
bill and and not only did they all those
things I talked about, there's also a
half a trillion dollar cut to Medicare
in there. I mean they how many times did
they tell you they won't cut Medicare
and then they found a half a trillion
ways to do it? Um right. All of that is
a vote that everyone but three
Republicans in the House voted for. So,
they got to live with that going into
next year's elections. Good luck. The
House, the Senate right now is crafting
their bill. Maybe by July 4th, they'll
have it done. And then they'll have to
take the two versions and have a
reconciliation process to have one final
bill and see if they can get that passed
all of the Republicans in the House and
the Senate. But with their tight margins
and the awful ideas, there's not going
to be a Democratic vote for this thing.
So, um, you know, they've got to kind of
figure out the infighting that they
have. But everything we call on, you
know, I I basically wake up to bad
choices and worse choices. Everything
say, um, I'm all for bad choices. Bad
choices are stopping the stealing of
healthcare and food from kids and
education funding. Um, and if they're
going to get the tax bill done, which
they did last time just by throwing it
on the national debt, I'm guessing that
is a path or at least a partial path
forward for them. But I don't want to
take it from the 55% of seniors in
Wisconsin who live in nursing homes or
the one out of three kids on Medicaid in
Wisconsin who get their health insurance
from that. That's just cruel.
And if I may, what do you suggest uh
everyday Americans do? What does our
listening audience do to fight back
against this? Well, first of all, I
Everyday Americans fight back
mean, I'm, you know, I'm so much like
most of my constituents in that I'm
pissed some days, I'm sad some days, I'm
scared some days. You know, I share the
same emotions. The one thing we can all
do, though, uh, are three things. One,
support any of the groups doing
litigation right now. There's over 250
lawsuits, but we've had positive
adjudications in 184 of them already,
and the Trump administration has caved.
He is truly the caverin chief. um he
takes a couple high-profile things and
continues to find ways to put them out
still legally, but you know, that's
where we're winning is in the courts.
Our founders did a good job with checks
and balances. So, support litigation,
too. Help us on communication. It's not
u misinformation, it's disinformation
that they're putting out there. So, we
need to use our social media to get the
real information out. That's why I
started a podcast this year with Liberty
and Justice for some to try to get, you
know, that message out there in a little
longer form. And then third are the
elections next year. So, you know, we
need people to contact their reps, call
them every week, you know, reach out to
everyone. We all get those numbers, put
that pressure on, but also when there's
that no kings rally. 5 million people
across the country joined us. If we can
keep cranking those numbers up at these
types of rallies, I was in Dodgeville,
Wisconsin at a rally. There's 3,500
people in Dodgeville. We had 4 to 500
people at that rally. When you start
doing that in these small communities,
that's way better than the 15,000 I had
in Madison. Bluntly in 400 people in
Sock City in Wisconsin, three or 400 in
Barabou, Wisconsin, all just outside of
Madison. So, just take that
pissed-offness and put it to action,
right? support the groups doing
litigation, fight the the
disinformation, and get ready for that
initial next election cycle so that you
know people who think it's a good idea
to cut your Medicare can do it from the
private sector because they won't be in
the public sector anymore. Fantastic.
And and speaking of No King Day, I was
going to say speaking of getting in good
trouble, we now know that No Kings Day
was one of uh the largest single day
protest in American history. So kudos to
everybody for showing up. Yes. Um, with
more actions coming like the good
trouble lives on protest that's coming
up on July 17th, which is on the
anniversary of Congressman uh, John
Lewis's passing, it feels like to us out
here, American voters, that something is
shifting in the American political
zeitgeist. Would you agree with your
point of view with who you work with and
your constituents? Do you feel that
there is a shift happening here? Oh, I
you know, I've always believed in the
the saying, and I actually printed on a
bumper sticker a couple cycles ago, if
the people lead, eventually the leaders
will follow. And there's no question
that's what's going on right now. Um
that election in Wisconsin for the
Supreme Court in April, the the message
was not that we elected a great new
Supreme Court justice or that we won by
10 points in a state where people that
usually win by one point because we're
so purple. The real story was the
turnout. People were so pissed about
Republicans not doing town halls and
they felt like they're not being heard
that they came out to vote and did not
only did we surpass the normal spring
turnout, we even surpassed the level
from two years ago when we flipped the
court, we had midlevel congressional
election turnout in Wisconsin and that
was the message. So, in other specials,
too, we saw this overturnout by by
Democrats and independents. And I think
that's what you're going to see next
year. If they keep this up and the
Republicans in Congress, you know, think
Trump is a king and that they're not
going to stand up to, you know,
constitutional authorities that we have.
People are going to say, "Well, then
fine. I'm going to put people who will
stand up in these jobs." And if you won
by 10 points or less your congressional
seat in the last election, you either
better figure out how to listen to your
constituents or you better get a
discount card at Costco so you can buy
depends by the cart. You're going to
need born with two ears and one mouth
for a reason, right? And speaking of
town halls, uh, Congressman, we had, uh,
Senator Ron Weiden join us in studio.
Now, here in Oregon, Senator Widen is a
legend when it comes to town halls. He's
done over,00 of them and so it's it's
huge for him and we also know it is for
you. How have the town halls been going
uh for you? And also what do you say
about the Republicans are now telling
their members I believe to not even hold
town halls. How do you respond to that?
Record Turnout
So the the town halls we do in district
are all having record turnout. Um, my
smallest communities are having, you
know, three times, four times what they
normally have in turnout. So, that's
great. People want to be heard. But,
I've done four town halls now, one just
outside of three directly in
Representative Derek Van Orton's
district in Wisconsin. He's got Western
Wisconsin. Um he's uh he's the guy who
was a January 6th insurrectionist on the
Capitol grounds who got elected to
Congress and he has never ever had an
in-person public town hall. Um you know
he's a former Navy Seal but he's scared
as about everything, you know,
especially his constituents. And so I've
helped him out um by doing town halls in
his district. And again, Veroa,
Wisconsin, 4,500 people. We had 4 to 500
people show up for a theater style
inside of a theater, you know, town hall
because they wanted to be heard. And
I've done them in Lacrosse and Oaklair
and outside Platville. And I'm going to
keep doing them in his district because
honestly, it's it's instead of the he
said, she said, this number, that
number, it's Wisconsin common sense.
Does it pass the smell test? If you're
saying this is a great bill, but you're
afraid to talk about it, you should want
to go on the rooftop and scream about it
if it's really as good as you say. But
if you're hiding in your basement, I'm
guessing people are going to start to
smell the that they're putting
out there with their legislation. So
that's the real test that I have is I
want to prove them to be hypocrites and
liars and chicken shits and everything
else that they are right now. And I'm
going to keep doing that. The good news
is there's now 20 or 30 members doing
that. And I would love us to get to the
point that we get in one week 50 uh town
halls in Republican districts that
people are doing for the Republican
members who are just too afraid to get
out there and talk to their
constituents. I love that he's going
outside the district. I mean, how I mean
that's choice right there. That's
choice. Uh switching gears a little bit,
Tiffany. I know you had another one. I
did. Um I want to talk about kind of the
uptick in targeted political violence
that we are having. Um, Senator Tammy
Baldwin, Representative Gwen Moore, and
your name were found in the subsequent
documents of the man who murdered
Representative Melissa Hortman and her
husband Mark and attacked Minnesota
Senator John Hoffman and his wife
Evette. Um, it's actually heartbreaking
because the two families know each other
and their daughters go to school
together. Oh, it's terrible. Yeah, it's
heartbreaking. Um, somehow the burden is
always on Democrats to lower the
temperature, but it's us that are out
there being attacked. So, what should
Americans be demanding from Republican
leadership here? How do how do we demand
from them that they turn the temperature
down? Well, I mean, it it starts at the
very top, right? Donald Trump is the guy
who has the most divisive rhetoric. Uh,
he's the one who, you know, calls people
out as subhuman. Um he's the one who
really, you know, riles this up. And
he's the one who pardoned the January
6th actual insurrectionists saying, you
know, it's okay if you do this kind of
stuff, you know, because, you know, this
is a fight for whatever. Um when really
for Donald Trump, it's a fight for his
bank account, right? I mean, this guy's
number one goal is always going to be
him and his family's personal finances.
But nonetheless, um so really it has to
start there. But, you know, we do need
to have a different rhetoric because you
can disagree without being disagreeable.
And, you know, um the the Republicans
right now have kind of tried to shift
this to saying it's, you know, pro
Palestinian, you know, peace protesters.
Um, you know, yes, they'll interrupt
some events that Republicans and
Democrats are at because they're looking
at with it what they consider to be a
genocide in Gaza. And because of that,
uh, they're outspoken, but they're not
taking it that that next level, right?
You need to just say, you can disagree
with someone and you have a chance to
unelect them. That's the strongest thing
you can do if you really want to be
heard. But to take it to a level of any
kind of political violence is just too
far. And you know, I know at least I was
told by someone who talked to a very
senior Democratic US senator that there
were at least four Republican senators
who were voted who would have voted
against some of the uh nominees had it
not been for not that they got threats,
but that their family members got
threats. God, you know, that's why this
is just unfortunately the byproduct of
the Trump style of politics. And I
think, you know, from the very top where
he's got the biggest megaphone, it
really has to stop. Very, very scary
stuff. And and uh very mafia tactics.
Yeah. And it's very difficult when the
uh president of the United States is
leading that uh that fire. I just I
can't even believe this is what we're
talking about. Yeah. Um switching gears
again uh to unions. Nick, I know you had
a question. From from uh division to
unity, right? So I I know, Congressman,
that you are a big labor guy. you're the
co-founder and co-chair of the
Congressional Labor Caucus. Uh the Trump
administration and their billionaire
backers are doing everything that they
can to kill the labor movement. Um what
do people need to be aware of and what
do all what do we all need to be uh what
do we all need to be doing to have the
back of the labor movement? Cuz the the
labor movement is more popular than it's
ever been, but the attacks are coming uh
fast and furious. Yeah. So you and
The Labor Movement
you're right and the good news is people
support people having a voice in their
workplace, right? Uh not just about pay
and benefit, but safety conditions and
other things that you know you should be
able to go to work and have reasonable
confidence you're coming home at the end
of the day. And that doesn't always
happen in all professions and all jobs
in America. Um so I I think the real
message, and it goes even broader than
labor, just to working people in
general, is Donald Trump is not your
friend. you know, he found this small
tax break for overtime pay, but it still
has a bunch of asterises. Not everyone
can access it. You still got to pay your
FICA taxes, all this other stuff.
Between that and the tax on tips, a
small senior deduction and on your
interest on autos, um, all of those tax
breaks that supposedly help real people,
um, add up to less than 5% of his whole
tax bill, right? So, at the end of the
day, he may be stealing a buck from your
pocket, but he's only putting a nickel
back in, right?
to him and Elon Musk. So, we got to
remember he's not your friend. And when
they're dismantling things like the
National Labor Relations Board that
allows people then to form a union once
they've decided to do so and have
followed the law to do it, they deserve
to have a right to be heard. And if you
dismantle those agencies, which is what
the Trump administration's doing, then
you've effectively stopped people from
being able to have that collective voice
through a union. So, it's it's looking
at what he's actually doing um both in
stealing from our wallets to give to the
wealthiest, but also, you know, taking
away those agencies that that have the
goalie in place for us that have those
protections for workers. If he's not
doing any of that, then he's really not
for you, and you should really stand up
and have people who are fighting for you
in office instead. I agree. I'm I'm a uh
I'm a vested uh teamster and um I
couldn't I was I I was never more proud
of my president uh than when he joined
the picket line. Uh and that was Yeah.
Biden and uh obviously obviously well I
just wanted to clarify it wasn't Trump.
Uh and so that meant a lot to me. He
might have he might have found the
Chick-fil-A line.
True that. Can I get you to comment on
the current uh Israel Iran situation
that's going on? What is your take on
what's going on and Trump's response?
Benjamin Netanyahu
Yeah, I'll tell I mean you have to
almost go a step back and Benjamin
Netanyahu uh is being charged by the
international courts as a war criminal
and I believe he should have to speak
for those crimes and it's he doesn't
speak for the Israeli people in my
opinion. He's certainly not speaking for
the Palestinian people, but watching
what he's done, I mean, Gaza has been an
open air prison for decades, and many of
us look the other way. I've tried twice
to get in to Gaza when I was there in
the Middle East and been denied. I
finally had gotten permission the month
before October 7th to go in between um
Halloween and the end of uh January,
would have been the first person in 10
years from Congress to actually get a
chance to get in. And you know, the
conditions have always been awful there,
largely because of of how Israel's
government had uh decided to to set up
the the so-called protections there.
What happened on the 7th was
devastating, but it's been taken
advantage of. And now it does appear to
be to many to be a genocide of the the
people in Gaza. When you're, you know,
taking out almost every building and
structure in Gaza, you keep moving
people and displacing them. And then
this is another step. They see Iran as
one of the funders of Hamas that did the
attack on the 7th, not Palestinians in
particular. It was Hamas, a subset of
that population. And because of that,
now I think, you know, we've heard this
refrain from him in the past that
they've almost got a nuclear weapon. And
it's never been true. And I guess um you
know, Tulsi Gabbard said it's not true.
And the president's now ignoring his own
uh intelligence people on this because,
you know, there seems to be this Israel
is always right attitude. Look, um I I
think this is disrespectful to the
people of Israel and Palestine. This is
Benjamin Netanyahu, their own version of
Donald Trump, uh that's doing this
stuff, and as long as he does this, he's
staying out of jail because he's got
some pending charges against him. And
you know, unfortunately, um tens of
thousands of people have lost their
lives. uh millions have been displaced
and now they're they're adding this into
another country and broadening a
conflict and I I don't want to ever have
to send young American men and women
into battle for something that's not
America's cause and right now I'm not
seeing this as as a real cause. Well,
either way you look at it, boy, it sure
those images coming out on both sides uh
coming out is just it's just terrible
stuff. It's terrible. And uh finally,
Congressman, the great thing about
having members of Congress on this show
is we get to learn about the many
districts that make up this great
nation. And so, can you tell us a little
bit about Wisconsin's second district?
What makes it special? Basically, we're
giving you an opportunity to brag about
your district. What are some of the
achievements and what are some of the
challenges uh in your district? So the
the main city is Madison, Wisconsin with
a world-class university, University of
Wisconsin Madison. We do a lot of
research and you know, I think we create
something like 55% of the job growth for
the entire state comes out of one
county, Dne County that Madison's in. So
you know, we got one county that's doing
a lot of great things in the state. And
then I' I got a lot of ruralness, too. I
mean, outside of Madison, the rest of
Dayne County, our agricultural output is
bigger than 12 states agricultural
output. Then you take in my other
counties. I got one county so rural out
of 72 counties in Wisconsin, there are
only two that don't have a stopand go
light and one is Lafayette County in my
district. The growing population is
Amish. All right. So I have got from the
most rural aspects of the state to you
know the hotbed of scientific research
and education and and job creation. So
I've got a little bit of everything. And
um you know it's just a beautiful part
of the state and you know people are
very you know Midwest nice. You know we
are a little passive aggressive I'll
admit at times but we're still Midwest
nice and uh you know I'm I'm very proud
to be from here and live here and plan
to continue to be. Well sir I'm I I'm a
fellow Wisconsinite born born in
Oaklair. So Oh nice. Yeah. I was just up
there doing a town hall for Derek Van
Orton a couple weeks ago. How generous.
Well, uh, sir, we can't thank you enough
for joining us today on the show. Truly,
from the bottom of our hearts, it it
means a lot. And, uh, please come back
on anytime. Yeah. No, thank you all. I
Liberty Justice Podcast
appreciate it. And, uh, just one last
plug, uh, with Liberty and Justice for
some is the podcast. Um, you know, uh, I
am truly I'm not one of the the rich
folks in Congress. I'm not one of the
lawyers in Congress. I'm about as
average as you can get in every way. I'm
actually extremely happy about that. So,
I really do represent my constituents
and I like to have conversations about
things that I and others care about and
it's not always what people talk about
in Washington, but you know, we have
some good conversations on there just
like you do and u I hope people will
give it a listen. We encourage all of
our listeners to go subscribe right now.
I'm sure it's on Apple, Spotify, the
whole the whole nine yards. That's what
I'm told. Okay. All right. Go find that
podcast and subscribe. right now. In
fact, we'll put a link in the
description of this video. Sir, thank
you so much. Sure. Thank you all.
Appreciate it.

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