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Democratic messaging what worked in 2020 I Joseph robinet Biden Jr do solemnly swear what didn't work in 2024 I Donald John Trump do solemnly swear and how we win moving forward your calls and messaging expert Billy Ray you know the old saying about the Democrats is when it comes to messaging Democrats could [ __ ] up a peanut butter sandwich right here right now on the Dangerous Ones the shots been fired but the war one these white boys with money better learn how to run the while hit your back the bloods on your Tong you and me baby with the [Music] dous [Music] one welcome to the Dangerous Ones I'm your host Jim drastic of 11 films and as always I'm joined by Tiffany drastic of 11 films and executive director of demcast USA Nick cansen Democratic messaging is something that everyone has an opinion on so we're taking your calls to the people's hotline on the subject and later you do not want to miss our interview with Oscar nominated writer and Democratic messaging expert Billy Ray it is truly eye openening and he does not pull any punches no it's a great interview fantastic yeah if you're watching the show on YouTube please hit like And subscribe and make a comment it helps us go up the robotic algorithm if you're listening to the show please give us a five-star review it would sure mean a lot to us and if you would like to support the show you can do so by going to teal and orang report.com and becoming a paid subscriber to our substack it would sure mean a lot sure would so here we are guys wow it feels like it's been a while in this you know uh so we had widen on which was fantastic got a great response yeah and uh this week Billy Ray man that is some sobering sobering he does not [ __ ] around yeah I can't wait for all of you to see this stay tuned guys this good very interesting conversation yeah I would agree um but Democratic messaging we put a call out for people to uh let us know what they think what went right and what went wrong is there is there like a is there a problem turns out there might be um so but let's get right to it we've got time for a few calls and then we'll get to uh Billy Ray people wanted to chime in let's hear what they have to say about what worked what did not work and how we win moving forward okay this is anonymous from Oregon and she's kind of pointing out what we've all known that Democrats weren't really honest yes I have been a Oregon resident most all of my life I'm from Yam Hill County and you want to know why the Democratic message did not resonate this time in my opinion is they weren't honest flat out they were not honest with the fact that Joe Biden was elderly and they needed to rectify that immediately I indicated that to my family members we have we had faith in the Democratic leaders that they would recognize this and be honest about it and that's where they failed I hope this helps well I think uh who can argue with that I mean that's I mean it's interesting that she brings that up because Billy Ray talks about that in the the interview in a universe where Trump does not win it's because probably Biden does what he said he was originally going to do and uh doesn't run for a second term as soon as the midterms are over he's like you guys have at it you know yep uh the new generational leadership needs to needs to come forward but like but there was some stubbornness on his part and and the people around [Music] him just pretending they weren't honest with him I don't know if they were honest with themselves I think I I think they really truly thought they were doing the best move at the time but they were not listening to us out here saying that's not really true and everybody had I mean we all have eyeballs yeah you know I mean and that that's what was really hard about that is because I love Joe I love Joe like he's Uncle Joe man you know and he was a he was he had a good presidency um but we could see it yeah like he he was getting old man he was getting old but you know we we read reports after the election I read articles where the the inner staff knew yeah they saw it they saw stumbling they tried to hide it yeah they tried to hide it Democrats what are you doing but I'm not I'm not defending them but who has ever beat Trump right one guy yeah you know good point and I understand that they wanted to hang on as long as they could and that's why we missed our opportunity to primary commo which I think is another fatal ER and Billy talks about that as well uh yeah and because we didn't because she was installed did not help this patina we have of like a totalitarian government you know or this this thing that the party has about we know what's best for you and you're going to sit down and take it you know but I I don't I mean ultimately I don't think her coronation or insulation or whatever is the nominee was what right was what like made made us lose that election it was the decision I mean it's like death by a Thousand Cuts right it's like 100 if anybody was going to be able to beat trump it was going to have to start in December of 2022 or or January of 2023 where Joe Biden says I'm out yeah and and there's like a process yeah you know fantastic call yeah great call yeah uh this next one is Charlene from Salt Lake City and uh she thinks the party is a little bit out of touch with voters hi uh my name is Charlene Owens and I'm from Salt Lake City Utah I saw the notice about what the Democrats messaging might have been might have gotten wrong in 2024 I think a big problem with it was yes the economy was doing well the stock market was up in 2024 things were inflation was coming down um everything you know the economy was doing terrific for some and and they're not to take anything away from that but the average person out there who heard these messages coming from our politicians that the economy is so great everything's wonderful well these people were at home going well wait a minute my interest on my credit card is 30% I can't buy a car because it's got there's 12% interest on that I can't buy a home because interest rates are over 7% all those kind of things were what are what every day Americans had to deal with and so when they heard Democratic candidates talking about we have the best postco economy in the world which we did it wasn't trickling down so to speak to the average person so they felt like Democrats didn't understand them and that Democrats were out of touch with what was important to them and I feel like that went a long way towards this just a lot of people just checking out and not voting um anyway just my two cents thank thank you Charlene from Salt Lake City Nick tonee yeah yeah I mean 100% she is absolutely right and I W I was very concerned about this throughout the election cycle um being involved in you know and connected to the party apparatus that was trying to push out messaging that was suppor supportive of the B Biden administration's efforts which were great great and accomplished a lot of big accomplished a lot of big things the height of that even you felt it I felt it because I feel it as an American I'm a dad of two of two kids they have two households uh the the bills keep piling up uh rent keeps getting higher College seems completely unaffordable like I I'm living it too and and so the the top- down messaging of uh the economy is great guys just felt uh tonee tone at best at best okay it's true but yeah I I'm not feeling it at home when I have to feed two extra mouths and that you know and I now I can't even do that like not to mention with all this inflation is shrinkflation right so you go to the store as a mom you think you're getting you go to Costco you think you get oh my God what you've been getting and you get home and you're like what the [ __ ] is this this is not enough to feed my family yeah you know the the this is what I was going to say earlier was is that unfortunately Americans I think Al are pretty impatient and you know here he he he launched the chips act and all these different things and those T things Tak time and and God bless the Biden Administration they tried to go out and tell people it's going to take some time factories need to be built things need to happen you know it's going to take a while and you know but that's but unfortunately too bad uh you know Americans are impatient what are you doing for me right now you know and um yeah totally agree like I have some empathy they they're they're up against a messaging apparatus on the right that is going to Pummel them 24 7 365 and they of course need to trumpet their wins yeah absolutely like yeah you you'd be it would be political malpractice not to trumpet your wins yeah uh but there was a if ironically because Joe Biden is like probably the most empathetic human like to in politics on Earth to be president ever right there was a there was a lack of empathy in the messaging and and in the in in the conversation like it it really needed to be more of like we know this isn't good enough yet yeah we're still we're trying and here's the things that we're doing but we know that like eggs are too expensive and milk is too expensive and we're doing better than all these countries all other countries postco but that's not good enough and we and and here's the things that you know so just like more um coming at it from a from a perspective of empathy rather than like trying to force feed people yeah like good news that they're not prepared to hear and I don't think leading with the entire world's on fire but we only have a dumpster on fire over here is the best strategy at all and it did not translate to anybody out here yeah and and finally I would just say also I you know yes you should Trump your trumpet your wins but I don't even think they did a good job of that yeah you know because they didn't really explain like what the chips Act is going to mean to me or my neighborhood or you know yeah I just yeah I thought it was just pretty uh pretty lame and like and like you were just saying before we got on air is is you don't have a lot of faith moving forward about in the in who the Democrats are and and what they're able to message I do not I think that at this moment especially now especially in Trump 2.0 where um you know it's Hell in a hand basket yeah um it's a the revolution back to an America that is empathetic and um prosperous for for the vast majority of us is going to come from the people and it's it's not it's not like the RNC has led the right-wing like messaging dominance oh for sure yeah for the last 45 years right right it's the whole apparatus it's the like they have a media media ecosystem they have um they have the all the think tanks you know getting pumped with billions and billions of dollars like they they have it's yeah it's not coming from the RNC so that so the idea that like we're going to get saved by uh a few politicians in Washington who have literally no platform anymore because nobody pays attention to press releases nobody watches Congressional hearings anymore like it's not going to come there nobody's coming to save us and it's definitely not the Democratic party it's it's going to we need to Mobil eventually we need to mobilize in the streets yeah as this gets worse and worse and worse and worse for Americans because it's going to because it's going to and um and we are going to have to tell the only party that will listen to us which is the Democratic party uh because they're coming at they're coming at the problem from the right direction they're not causing the problem um we're going to have to lead them and tell them tell them how like what positions to take and and and um sort of Point them in the right direction yeah fantastic one more call and then let's get to the interview this is Jean and she's saying wherever the game is going to be Dems you guys need to show up hi uh my name is Jean I am calling in response to your message about what's wrong um and I will give you my reply I've been asking myself for years how have so many people's brains been hijacked I felt that the nefariousness that is so obvious in the Cheeto man and the Maga minions to me is not so obvious to the other half of America then while watching The Daily Show with John Stewart on March 24th he succinctly described it social media algorithms brains bathed in m isms hijacked referenced the army of Broar at the in inauguration their task complete and they stood nominated o to the Diaz as evidence of their success and servitude I ask once the DNC has actually figured out the message for democracy that they get in the game on the same playing field I'm not promoting social media but if that is where the game is played then suit up love it demanding that they get their [ __ ] [ __ ] together Su up yes I want a t-shirt suit up you know uh it was was that Jean right that was Jean Jean thank you for the call Nick I don't have anything to say about this no no um seems like it would be demcast your territory so look kind of like what I was saying a minute ago about you know nobody's coming to save us like yes the party needs to get more online there there are good Messengers who are very online who are on the on the left and there are problems that are bigger than like there are not enough Democrats who are getting online like the algorithm is run by the dudes who were standing behind Trump at the inauguration that's a good point that's an excellent point I mean like that the system's rigged the system the system is very rigged uh and and I would wager that there are a lot of Democrats who have said some really cool stuff who have posted that [ __ ] online and it's been seen by like 12 people because the algorithm squashes it nobody's looking for it nobody amplifies it um so again the solution is not you know I I agree with you Jean like yes more like like well welcome to to 2025 get online guys um all of you um and if you and if you're not capable of communicating in an in in an online space effectively then you probably shouldn't be a politician in the 2020s right like to be perfectly honest well fantastic you guys stay where you are don't change anything you are about to hear from an expert on this subject and man what he has to say is quite sobering and even kind of like shocked me a few times uh but he is absolutely somebody everybody should be listening to and um this was recorded a little bit earlier today have a listen Our Guest today is an Oscar nominated screenwriter with credits such as the Hunger Games Richard juwel and Captain Phillips among others he's also a gifted director who directed one one of our favorite miniseries the Comey rule on Showtime so good that was based on the book a higher loyalty by former FBI director James Comey starring Jeff Daniels as Comey and the fabulous Brendan gleon as president Trump he's an expert on Democratic messaging and in 2020 he teamed up with fellow writers Greg herwitz and Marshall hovitz and others to produce over 150 political ads aimed at helping the Democrats defeat Donald Trump and as we all know it worked because Donald Trump Was Defeated that November so he is the perfect person to have on the show to speak about Democratic messaging ladies and gentlemen Billy Ray welcome Billy uh I'm gonna try to live up to that intro thank you so much it's great to be here thank you for coming on we always try to do up the the intros real big in hopes that they'll come back on at some point deserve every second of it in full disclosure during 2020 uh tiffan I Tiffany and I uh with 11 films we were uh proud uh to work uh behind the scenes with you guys just a little bit we help turn some knobs you guys you guys wrote them and produced them we just helped turn some knobs on a few of those ads and then they would go out to various Outlets um so really the the first question is 2020 the messaging worked 2024 I don't know who you know it didn't work what happened um I would go back two years earlier to 2018 when the messaging really really worked um in 2018 the goal was try to flip the house and therefore saved the country and Democrats with complete message disciplin went out and just said Healthcare healthare healthare and gained 40 seats in the house um which literally did save the country um Democrats do not typically message well from the top down um I've done a lot of thinking about this and I think it's because Republicans generally come into politics from a a professional work circumstance Democrats typically come into politics from an activism background people who work um in a professional hierarchy understand top- down messaging and they tend to be more loyal Messengers um people who come from activism have never worked in that circumstance before and they don't respond well to top- down messaging so the Democrats you know the old saying about Democrats is um democ when it comes to messaging Democrats could [ __ ] up a peanut butter sandwich and and in in 2024 we did um we just dropped $6.7 billion dollar on an election cycle and if you stop any American in the middle of the street right now and say what does the Democratic Party stand for they cannot tell you and if you pushed really hard they'd say well okay I know you guys hate Trump you love abortion you love trans people and you love open borders that's our brand um in terms of inspiring people it's hardly the New Frontier right and we need to do better and doing better is really simple it's very much within our grasp um we just have to message in a different kind of way so that that brings me too to I I had seen you on a podcast with Jill wein Banks and you were talking about the demographic of the party I didn't think when we got to 2025 that our party would have an identity crisis I thought it was going to be Republicans and the infighting that was going on so what do how do we rebuild that image if we've alienated like you said 68% of our base right to in favor of the 32% which because you had mentioned something that he had said uh about Christians yes okay so 68% of our country is Christian okay 88% of the homes in America have a b and the average has four in the Democratic platform in 2024 there are mentions of Hinduism Buddhism Judaism and Islam do you have any mentions of Christianity there are zip yikes okay in what business can you say to 68% of your potential customers [ __ ] off you don't matter we are so concerned with the rights of these other 32% that we're going to treat you like you're the problem we're going to treat treat every gun owner like he's a school shooter who does that nobodys you know there were 15 uh million Americans who had voted for Joe Biden and didn't vote for KLA Harris 15 million wow as anybody who's ever run a business can tell you getting customers is hard and losing customers is unforgivable we just lost 15 million of them Yeahs are going to roll of course we're going to have to do things differently the the we every single time Donald Trump ran for president his numbers went up yeah we just lost the popular vote to this guy we lost all seven swing states to this guy yes we have to rethink what we're doing but okay so your question is fair how do we do it you know and and and one are the things that um I was thinking about is during the 2020 election cycle and for the folks that don't know during 2020 you know obviously everybody was covid we're locked at home um you know on the messaging standpoint so Twitter's blowing up because everybody home and and and whatnot um you know there's groups like obviously 11 films and then Midas tou came out there was the Lincoln project there's Don winsel films there's uh really American there's arvat there's all these different groups and it was a [ __ ] it was just a a a movement of messaging that just was undeniable and one of the ads uh I'll get to my point here but one of the ads uh that we did during 2020 was called uh shining City on a Hill which used Reagan's words and and I was thinking about it this morning when I was writing some notes and it was like also during 2020 the messaging wasn't just to you know uh it was also it was obviously to help Democrats but it was also not to put down every single Republican that ever walked in the room and that's what that video was so good at it was also nominated for a Webby award and whatnot let us resolve they will say of our day and of Our Generation that we did keep Faith with our God that we did act worthy of ourselves that we did protect and pass on lovingly that shining City on a Hill um can you speak on that a little bit I mean Don winsell films also did that too a lot of like trying to wake Republicans up without necessarily talking [ __ ] about him okay so first of all that ad the The Shining City on the hill ad was the brainchild of Greg herwitz and Marshall hovitz uh and it's a brilliant ad it's it's a perfect ad and it had a huge impact as it should have um there were 6.2 million Americans who had voted for Obama and in 2016 voted for Trump 6.2 million flip voters um 1.3 million of them in 2016 came from three states Wisconsin Michigan and Pennsylvania which is why the blue wall crumbled but that's a lot of people in three states 1.3 million so somebody smarter than I am did a deep dive on those 1.3 million flip voters in those three states and what they disc what they discovered was that the that voter that guy who had flipped from Obama to Trump on average Works two and a half jobs he commutes three hours a day and he thinks about politics four minutes per week per week okay you remember the last time you went four minutes without thinking about politics no I was a child you go up to that guy in Scranton in Lancing in o'clair in Tucson okay he's working two and a half jobs he's commuting three hours a day thinking about politics 4 minutes per week okay I guarantee you he's taking his medication every other day to make 30 pills last 60 days his kid school is falling apart his mom's living in a nursing home if she survived covid and America consumes 80% of the opiates in the world so Throw That Into You go up to that guy and say to him I don't like your pronouns and youve got white privilege you're GNA send him screaming into the arms of the nearest Republican because in every close race every close house race in America the voters will tell you it came down to something really simple the Republican was an [ __ ] and the Democrat was an elitist and the [ __ ] never made me feel dumb okay but we as Democrats and this is where we lose them we insist that people celebrate things that they have just learned how to tolerate and it's not the same thing you go up to that voter in Lancing and you say gay rights he'd say Okay I I don't care I know a gay guy Works in HR he's fine I'm fine but don't tell me if I don't March in a parade I'm a homophobe but we as Democrats said nope if you don't come all the way with us you're a knuckle dragger and we're going to cancel you and that's where we lose them they agree with us on minimum wage they agree with us on abortion they agree with us on guns they agree with us on the environment they agree with us on protecting Social Security and and Medicare they agree with us on everything but we tell them how to talk and Republicans don't and that's one Freedom they just will not give up so yes that means we have got to stop insisting that government documents say justice involved individuals instead of criminals we've got to stop insisting that people say pregnant person instead of pregnant woman by the way if you are a man trapped in a woman's body and you get pregnant and you want to call yourself a pregnant person great I'll fight for your right to do so but I'm not going to tell my neighbor he has to say it that takes his freedom away I'm not going to do it and by the way no it doesn't make sense to say to people you can't say homeless anymore you have to say unhoused it's [ __ ] insane are you telling me that the homeless guy down the street from me is going to wake up one day say and say to himself you know when people called me homeless I really really suffered some IND indignity but now that they're calling me unhoused I I think I'm going to take a shower and get a job it's just it's just stupid and it makes us sound ridiculous we have got to aim to meet people where they are emotionally you cannot sell joy to people who cannot afford eggs it's that's so in a way uh Billy we're almost saying we need to create Democratic messaging for Democrats like in the sense of saying hey guys you know we are supposed to be the party of Tolerance and and and and things like that and clearly we're not doing that when we say well if you don't say it this way you're canceled if you don't say because let's be honest and it's such a [ __ ] thing because it's like I completely agree with the entire me too movement and all these other things but but now so many things have been lumped in it's like like you said if you don't immediately understand right off the bat you're cancelled and that is Barack Obama warned us about that and and uh and so it sounds like almost we need to have a little conversation with our fellow Democrats I'm like hey let's relax true we've become really good at dividing even to ourselves so what do we do about that Billy how do we how do we wrap our arms around Republicans who maybe feel like they don't have a party they're not welcome here and around our own people who feel alienated cuz I do too you know especially in Democratic messaging it's a lot of gate keeping it's a lot of you know you have to do and say what we tell you to say and do and so how do we how do we unify okay first the thing that people are longing for is community you see it in poll after poll they've been told for nine years that they have to hate their neighbors over politics and they're exhausted they're over it remember they're thinking about politics four minutes per week you're not going to get them with an argument about the debt ceiling or the filibuster they don't give a [ __ ] they're just trying to get through the day okay step one is to talk to them from a position of humility the absence of humility shown by my party has been staggering since November 5th we got our asses kicked yeah don't let anybody tell you that it was close it was not close we lost the popular vote to a guy with 34 four felonies and two impeachments no we didn't come close we got worked and it's because we didn't allow people into our tent we gave them the Heisman instead we said to them oh wait a minute you disagree with us on guns that's it you're a knuckle dragger oh wait a minute you disagree with us on abortion [ __ ] off you're a fascist it went on and on and on when the fact is that what people really want is they want to get back to a time when they were thinking about bake sales and little league and looking after each other's kids they want to know that if they're on the side of the road with a flat tire that a neighbor is going to pull over without first checking to see if their bumper stickers match yours people just want Community they want to get their neighbors back but if you want to get your neighbors back you got to have your neighbors back you you have to lower your voice a little bit lower your arms a little bit open your ears and hear what they have to say people fundamentally do not want to be angry at each other about politics that's a fire that Donald Trump started but we're the only people getting burned by it and we have to wake up yeah that's that's and it's like you know I feel like you're not I I I knew that but I don't how do we express our anger at what happened I mean like did did you know we did you feel like we were going to lose did you feel like we had it in the back because I was at the DNC all that energy all of that I thought we were gonna win everybody I thought it was GNA be baseball and potato salad again I was knocking on doors in Pittsburgh thank you and feeling very very good about the people that I was talking to and the best holster in Pennsylvania told me personally we're going to win Wisconsin by 120,000 Michigan by 140,000 and Pennsylvania by 200,000 it's done he said I think we're going to lose Nevada but we've got the blue wall I flew home fat dumb and happy and said everyone got it we're good right and the second I saw the first return come in I said oh here we go we're done it's over yes I was very very surprised um but that said there were mistakes made that were obvious um yeah go on Joe Rogan go on Joe Rogan 47 million people will be watching not 800,000 like when you went on Brett bear um there were certain things that we did that um that did not project humility they projected arrogance they projected a sense of we know better for America whether America wants it or not and America doesn't want that America uh really appreciates a party that speaks with some humility if you're a Democrat okay so to get back to what you were saying earlier yes we need to talk to Democrats about the way they speak um I help about 80 sitting members of the House and Senate with messaging now and then it's the unpaid half of my day um and what I say to them is you have to stop messaging as if you're afraid of the 23-year-old Wesley and grad on your staff stop walking around being afraid that someone on your staff is going to tell you you're not woke enough yep and if they do you have to fire them because they don't get it the votes are in the big middle and by the way I say this as the most liberal guy you're going to meet and I live a woke life but I will not impose that on anybody else around me I will not it is political suicide it's absurd what we're out there trying to do right you cannot talk down to people and then ask for their support at the same time and say what you will about Donald Trump he does not talk down to his voters okay that's true for sure the other thing that we need to do is stop talking about Donald Trump yeah full stop it doesn't matter now right yeah we have been telling America that he is an [ __ ] for nine years like we know that's like the vote total has gone up in three consecutive elections because here's the bottom line they know he's an [ __ ] they like that he's an [ __ ] they voted for him because he's an [ __ ] because the more assholic I know that's not a real word theol the more assholic he is the more he irritates us and that's what they really want to do okay so we got to stop talking about Trump everything we say from now on has to come from a place of advocacy for Americans in other words if he goes after Dei let him and our response should be how does this lower the price of eggs how does this make it easier for you to buy a home if he goes after transgender people let him you cannot help transgender people by losing elections he goes after them he decides to kick them out of the military you say how does this make us safer how does this lower the price of eggs how does this make it easier for you to afford a home whatever he says you come from a position of advocacy for example Le in just the last week he is blowing out Rural Housing Programs he's getting rid of all the staff all the disaster dollars are now at risk take a look at what's happening in Montana which is curiously this weird Bell weather for the rest of the country he's cutting the forestry service that has a huge impact in Montana he's cutting veteran services Montana has the highest concentration of veterans of any state in the Union nine% of the population in Montana are vets they're getting hammered up there he's closing social Security offices in calispel and Missoula which is going to impact uh elderly citizens of course disproportionately and guess what people in Montana are Furious they're getting mad at the Republicans for the first time ever and you will see that will cross down to the Dakotas to Kansas to Nebraska there's going to be a movement out there because Maga is starting to wake up and realize oh [ __ ] we thought we were just going to be [ __ ] over black people we didn't mean us right that's the shock that they are now all experiencing stop talking about him they'll start talking about him you just start talking about the voters that you're there to protect that's the Mantra boy so the pain level almost has to it just has to start touching people's lives you know we always talk about is it the stories of your neighbor that'll help pick people up yeah and and so like on this show one of the things we do Billy is uh we have the uh what we call the people's hotline people call leave us messages about how they're being impacted by uh uh Trump's policies because our belief is the best way to fight forward right now the best thing we can do on this podcast truly to truly help is to amplify stories of people who are personally being impacted because by doing that we're hoping that people who originally voted for Trump or voted for Trump the second time will hear those stories and hear more and more and more and more of those stories about how their neighbor is being negatively impacted or maybe they're a family member and then pretty soon after a while it's not this thing that's far off it's this thing that I don't want Bill the guy I mow the lawn next to every Sunday to be hurt by like well that doesn't sound good and eventually maybe that will slowly start to change the minds um of some of these folks and uh I was kind of curious to get your take on on that approach yeah I think it's absolutely the right approach because here's the thing about Bill mowing the law next to you he's not going to be mowing the lawn next to you pretty soon he's going to lose his [ __ ] house Jes that's the reality you think the econom is going to get better can you point out a time in the last 40 years where the economy has gotten better under a Republican president it never does no the deficits always explode um the debt gets bigger and services get cut off and then democratic presidents come in and they write the ship and then Republicans can come in and message better than we do and the economy goes in the tank again and that's what's coming do you think the price of eggs is going down you think gasoline is going down do you think tariffs are going to make it easier for people to buy things of course not it's just a giant tax on everything and on top of it we are cutting Social Services right necessary government services and when you slash that many federal jobs at one time and we are talking about like a a machete going through government which ises not say that the government didn't have some fat but when you blindly just blow out millions of jobs you know the Vets are 30% of our government Workforce yeah 30% you're going to hurt vs that deeply do you think America's going to stand for that do you think America's going to put up with it here's the thing that I saw a poll recently that was kind of stunning um Americans were asked what percentage of this country do you think is transgender and Americans said 21% the answer is less right they were asked what percentage do you think are Jewish Americans said 30% the answer is less than two they were asked what percentage do you think is atheist again they said 30% the answer is less than three they were asked what percentage of our country do you think is black they said 46% the answer is 12 and on and on down the line they were asked what percentage do you think makes uh over 250 Grand a year and they said 44% and the answer is less than one Americans have no idea what country they're living in and the result is that white male Christians now believe they're a minority and they have backed up into tribal corners and Come Out Swinging which is of course how you explain the election of trump right what we need to make sure that we are communicating to people is that this is still an overwhelmingly white heterosexual Christian country okay okay and that they don't need to fight so hard to establish their place in the hierarchy their place in the hierarchy is super safe and they need to understand that there is not some Mexican criminal transgender person who is trying to sneak over the border and destroy their country right that's not happening it's never happened it's never going to happen we need to calm everyone down and the way we do that as Democrats is by inviting those people people back into our community and the cell is okay you voted for Trump we're not going to hammer you about that we're just asking you take a look at the price of eggs take a look at the affordability of homes take a look at the quality of schools take a look at what's happening to the environment take a look at your neighbor take a look at the social security check take a look at Medicare going away take a look at what's happening to vets is that what you voted for CU I think what's going on I can't prove it but I think seems to me that the government in the name of Elon Musk is trying to wipe out all government services place all those people with AI and then musk will own the AI yeah this is all about money this is not about making our country better it's not about making our country more efficient it's just profit and we have put it in the hands of people who don't fundamentally care about Americans I think Democrats do I think Democrats believe investing in people you know you bring up a really good point during 2020 um we uh Tiff and I did a lot of work with donzo films and the great people over there um and a couple of the ads that we did we again they did the ads we were just turning a lot of the knobs but but circled around reclaiming the flag you know I mean for Democrats because there like there's this whole like I'm literally like one one of the most patriotic people and I'm a and I'm a I'm a liberal Democrat but but but when you drive down the street and somebody's got a flag in there yard you're like I know who you voted for and that's you know and that's true too right but so the flag and so that my point to the Don wiell films thing was they were trying to say you know the flag has been hijacked it's horseshit we need to take it back we're just as patriotic if not more at this point uh than the other guy you know um so I think that's important uh as well I real quick I want to read something that you had said uh Billy Ray in an interview that I thought was uh just kind of hit me um uh this is a quote uh I felt more afraid for my country after the election of Donald Trump than I felt after 911 the day after 9911 I knew the country would come together the day after Donald Trump's election I knew the country would come apart can you speak a little bit about I mean the differences are glaring but the difference between what we had to deal with with Trump the first time and obviously the messaging that went went towards that and what we are dealing with now and like it's a whole [ __ ] different ball game in my opinion I think it's a very different ball game and and it's a scarier ball game um Trump when he first came into office in 2017 had no idea how to work the levers of government and didn't expect to be elected and and was so arrogant that he didn't think he had to learn well now it's eight years later and while Republicans have been smoldering over the election of Biden project 2025 was being conceived by people who do understand the levers of power in government and had a very very specific plan for what to do about it I mean most Americans haven't read project 2025 yeah and Trump pretended he didn't know what it was and the fact is I'm sure Donald Trump never read it because it it doesn't say his name but right but people around him have and they were always planning to do exactly what they're doing right now yes it's true the flag has been hijacked I don't doubt the patriotism of Republicans and I don't doubt the patriotism of Maga I really don't um I think they believe in a different America I think they believe that America is a place that God set aside for white Christian people and that anything they have to do in defense of that is patriotism Democrats just believe something different and I believe independent voters believe something different too Democrats believe that America is an idea and that America is actually the best idea that any country has ever been I mean if you think about what the history of all countries are it's it's always about territory or um or monarchy um there's always fights over those things but America um was the first country that was ever an idea we're going to try a different kind of government here um and it became the model for the world the only country since that's been an idea um was Israel which had a very specific idea to it born out of the Holocaust those are the only two countries I can name that weren't based on territorial battles or or monarchy of one kind or another tribal Warfare Etc okay if America is an idea then the fundamental thing we need to make sure people understand is that democracy is a decision it's not automatic like gravity or the sun rising in the East democracy happens because a country its people demand that it happens if we stop insisting upon democracy what we get in said is what we have now authoritarianism we're watching it happen and I think if you were to boil down the fundamental differences between one party and the other it's that Democrats like to govern and Republicans like to rule and that's what we're seeing and I don't believe Americans want to be ruled Donald Trump's numbers with independent voters right now that number is 28% 69% of independent voters say they are falling behind on their bills that's death that's over you're done done if that's the number okay by the way 63% of Republicans say they are falling behind on their bills so that economic Wizardry argument is not going to fly I believe that this Administration has about eight or nine more months left to keep trying the [ __ ] that it's trying because in 2026 there will be Republican members of the House who have to run for reelection and Republican members of the Senate who have to run for re-election and the economy will have completely cratered by then and they're going to have to run away from Trump and once they do his political power is finished and then we have a shot we have a chance God I hope so relying on the midterms again okay I know I know you know uh let me ask you a question start interrupting yeah no please please do if Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona ran for president today against Donald Trump do you think Donald Trump would win not close not close no I mean no no no how do you how do you go against that I mean you yeah America has already figured out that it made a mistake yeah yeah all the Democrats have to do now without amplifying their um distaste for Trump all they have to do now is advocate for the people who are beginning to realize what a mistake we just made collectively but you do that again by being humble and being inclusive and by having patience with people who may disagree with you on an issue or two once we demonstrate that I think we're a juggernaut if we don't we're going to lose in 2026 again yeah go ahead if you had to like if you could write one magic sentence and the brand is redone and we walk in and we win forever or we we we get everybody on our side the American side right C little left a little right what is the sentence what is the everybody this is it this is what we're doing now this is who we are mean like we're all getting behind yeah um for me yes it's Faith over fear ah Faith over I love that fear I do too what what drives every Republican ad you've ever seen in your lifetime God Guns and Country fear yeah right fear of chaos that's in every ad run by every Republican ever go back and look at the Willie Horton ad that buried Michael duckus in 1988 yeah it essentially said if you vote for Michael duckus a black convict on Furlow is going to come murder your family okay Democrats are soft on crime chaos then after 9911 Democrats are soft on terror remember that one yep yep chaos now it's Democrats are for open borders Democrats are for burning cities Democrats want to defund the police Democrats don't care if you're son becomes your daughter chaos chaos chaos fear fear fear if you give Republicans or conservatives the choice between authoritarianism and what they perceive to be chaos they'll pick authoritarianism every time right they're doing it right in front of us okay so we need to understand that fear and we need to speak to something that is higher which to me is faith faith in our fellow Americans faith in democracy faith in Community faith in America in which Americans pull for other Americans it's Faith over fear and you can tell that story in a million different ways but it is ultimately about speaking to the part of Americans that really does just want to think about bake sales in little league and looking after each other's kids they want to believe that there is a fundamental contract between government and the Govern and that that that fundamental contract is government takes care of the really big stuff right infrastructure defense covid the environment the economy Etc so that you're free to live your best life we build the roads you get your kids to school on time and if you wind up working harder than everybody else and getting two houses in a boat good for you that's America we're not going to pull you down we're going to celebrate your success we're not going to treat you like you're the problem because you outworked everybody else that's Faith over fear that's Community if we are preaching that message and going to B every day for Americans for vets for the elderly for the people who are working their asses off and continue to fall behind we keep going to bat for them and their kids and their extended families America will notice we didn't do that in 2024 we wagged our fingers at people they told us to go [ __ ] ourselves we either learned from it or the country's lost I [ __ ] love I'm stealing all of that so just so you know I hope you're okay with that I'm stealing every bit of that we have Marshall coming in in a couple days too and he's gonna talk about you know harking back to the that old Americana and how that's all still living in all of our hearts and it's not a radical idea that you could afford a house and a car send your kids to college and go on vacation that was like the middle class that was the idea look again Americans they want they want leaders yeah they don't want rulers okay and they just want freedom fairness and Future Three apps really simple they want to be free to live their best lives they want everyone to start at the same starting line right and they want to believe that the American ideals will carry us into the future they want to believe in the next American Cent Century yeah go talk to some 24 year-old out there and see if he or she or they believes in that they don't they don't they've never seen government work they weren't there to see the Marshall Plan they weren't there to see the highway system get built they weren't there to see us put a man on the moon they weren't there to see any of it they're coming through a school system that is barely functioning right they see that we are a nation of Hales and Have Nots they don't see that bridge getting crossed in any way we have to make them believe in us as a country we have to make them believe in democracy and in government we have to make them believe in each other and in themselves we have to get them to put the [ __ ] phone down and stop Doom scrolling and stop Tik Tock and you know look to each other um as as safe harbors once again that's the Democratic message working for working people right that's what we do and we have completely blunted our own message and and almost lost our country as a result of it the good news is it's eminently fixable incredibly fixable um we just have to start talking differently we have to start messaging in the way that we actually intend to govern one of the things uh that I wanted to bring up um you know we were talking about uh you know you know we got to get on the podcast we got to do the thing they got to do all the things um you know in in when Hillary Hillary Clinton ran now first of all let me just let it be known I'm a fan of Howard Stern I know Tiff we're we're we like the show we're a big fan we have been since the 90s when he came to Portland whatever some people like him some people don't I get it but he would rail on like he was a big Hillary Clinton supporter and he's like why doesn't she just come on the show like I'm I'm speaking to you know millions of people every morning it can't hurt man you know and I didn't know Hillary she was very walled off she was very but it didn't me Asic yeah and so and then um but uh and then now uh everything that's happened in this last election I'm happy to say that you know we had Senator Ron weiden come in studio here we're a brand new podcast he was gracious enough to come in we had a great time it was a great interview and I go Christ maybe they're listening maybe they've heard like you know I mean he came on a show called The Dangerous Ones for sakes you know I mean I I was really like okay maybe we are waking up um I'm I'm hoping that is true um I would even say that when Hillary did go on Howard Stern it was too late itely too late and when she did it I was like [ __ ] I wish she would have done that when she was still running and same with Joe and you know Joe had done it and whatnot but but so we got it sounds like the the message might be getting out sounds like it might be too a little too late but you talk to more politicians on a on a daily basis I'm sure than than even I we do are they getting that message time to time to not be scared anymore guys I think the [ __ ] gloves are off oh oh of course oh God I hope so yeah you know they all know it oh good and and when you talk to them about redefining the party I hate the term rebranding I know rebranding to me is like taking the same soda and just put in a different color can that's not what we're doing we're redefining what it means to be a Democrat yeah and um we are expanding that term and everybody that I talk to everyone in the Senate that I talk to everybody in the house that I talk to knows we have to do it they all know that we have to get the left to if not come aboard at least not be um the reason that we don't get our message out the left is a part of our party but it is not the sum of our party and it should not be the face of our party and even AOC knows that um you can watch her behavior and watch her distance herself from some of the members of the far-left of our party um you know I used to say that the difference between our Lunatic Fringe and the Republicans Lunatic Fringe was that their Lunatic Fringe wanted to get rid of democracy and replace it with authoritarianism and our Lunatic Fringe just wanted everyone to go to college for free not true our Lunatic Fringe wants to tell America how to talk America will not be told how to talk America will never ever ever accept it it is antithetical to the American character to be browbeaten in that way and so what we need is to move to the big Middle where the votes have always been we need to gain power and then govern in a way that is true to our principles we do it better than Republicans do we're way better at governing than Republicans are remember we're the guys who when the I95 Bridge collapsed and everybody said it would take a year to get it rebuilt we did it in 16 days yeah I started begging on that day every Democrat in Congress go have your picture taken on that bridge every day go show Americans what Democrats do when we actually have some power in government look how efficient we are look how good at this we are look how much we take care of what you need taken care of but you can't get them to do it because when it comes to messaging at that point they were [ __ ] up a peanut butter sandwich yeah and I think they all know now that that will not work that the game has been fundamentally changed um say what you want about Donald Trump he has changed the Norms of politics maybe in a permanent way but certainly in a way that's going to take generations to undo and we have now gotten the message I'm pretty sure um I I think you're going to see us talk in a different way in the next two years I literally could sit here I'm not making this up I could literally sit here for two hours listening to you talk about Democratic messaging that's what a nerd I am I guess I don't know I you know um we are running against the time but I wanted to uh part with this and see if maybe you had some words for our audience what can folks in our audience uh are listening to this show watching this show what is your advice to them being an everyday American they're obviously listening to a political podcast right now I got to tell you the voicemails they're heartbreaking they're heart people are scared people are losing their benefits it's they they are just it's it's really it's scary times what do you as we kind of kind of bring this to a close what do you recommend to all of those folks who are listening right now what can they do to be uh helpful over the next uh two years and four years okay first of all I want to apologize to all of them because we as Democrats did not tell our message um forcefully enough or clearly enough to make America vote for us and support us and if we had you wouldn't be facing the crisis that you're facing right now so this is a failure on the part of my party and we have to atone for it we have to do better and we will do better this is not your fault this is our fault but here's what I think you need to do about it now let us for the moment get rid of this idea that sending a really mean tweet is political expression and is going to do anything you need to go out in the streets you need to tell the story of the house you're losing or the elderly parent who's not getting benefits anymore or the vet who can't afford the apartment anymore and is moving into a car um you need to shine a light on what your government is failing to do right now and it is again it's not about Twitter Twitter is seen by 7% of the country that's just not enough you need to actually be part of a collective that is out there and protesting I guarantee you it got attention when 100,000 people were standing outside the Tesla dealer ship in Chicago literally it scared the White House so much that the next day the president of the United States did a tested commercial from the [ __ ] White House Jesus Christ yes your voice matters you matter you matter to your family you matter to your community you matter to your country you matter to our Collective future and you need to take that agency and go out and tell your story Americans always respond to a truthful story passionately told that's how I've made my living since I was okay I thought it was 19 didn't you sell an episode of the Jetson I sold an episode of the Jetson when I was 19 but I didn't make a living as a writer that's right until I was 24 that's right but the point is go tell your story find other people who have similar stories it's not going to be hard to find them they're going to be everywhere and if we're not careful they're going to be telling those stories from the gutter get together with people make your voice feel Universal and loud and the rest of the country will noce and hang in there keep praying and give Democrats a chance we will go to B for you wow well uh said it better wow fantastic Billy thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts for being on this show I know that this show is better now because you have been a guest I know and it's such a privilege to talk about this stuff with you guys and um it's presumptuous as hell but if you'd ever like me to come back I'd love to oh I'd love to have you we're forcing you back yeah and we're just honored to uh if I can be presumptuous to to call you a friend thank you so much and friends in the best way absolutely and uh and I look forward to fighting alongside of you over the next two and four years uh thank you everybody for watching and have a great rest of your day [Music]

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