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from tdo studios in Portland Oregon welcome to the Dangerous Ones fire but the war ain't one these white boys with money better learn how to run the wild hit your back the bloods on your tongue you and me baby with a danger [Music] all right all right well welcome to the Dangerous Ones and today we have a very special episode it is special because we're are going to be doing our first interview I am stoked oh my God I am so excited before we get to who that is uh let me introduce my co-host to my left I've got the co-founder of 11 films and my beautiful wife and best friend Tiffany drastic hey everybody yay and to my right I've got the executive director of demcast USA Nick kudon everybody yay thank you thank you all right and folks please do us a favor and subscribe to us on YouTube and when you do please select all so you get notified every time we launch a new video and also subscribe to our brand new substack the teal and orange report it's free but if you can ship in $6 a month you're going to get all the those extra goodies extra goodies extra goodies that's right and it's $6 a month only through the end of February so subscribe now that would uh truly mean a lot but now I wish I got to get a drum roll uh in in here but uh now Nick who is our first guest of the Dangerous Ones all right we're super excited Wy niichel former congressman from North Carolina who previously worked for vice president Al Gore and President Barack Obama as a congressman in North Carolina's 13th congressional district he fought tooth and nail for the issues important to North Carolinians like quality public education and reproductive Healthcare that is until North Carolina Republicans gerrymandered him out of his district more importantly he's a great husband and a father to two kiddos and a fantastic human being ladies and gentlemen Wy nickel welcome I'm so excited to be part of this this podcast it's so great to be with with you Jim Tiffany Nick thanks so much absolutely I'll just say this is the first interview we asked for you firsty isy first and we're not kidding we're not just saying that we literally had some other people lined up and we said no let's make him first uh we just knew we wanted to have you be our first guest ever and we're going to have to send him a t-shirt too I think you know first guest you know yeah first guest yeah we want people to know who you are so um you know you uh you started your political uh Journey I think with the gore uh uh vice president Gore in the White House yeah no my first job uh you know during college and then after college was was working for Al Gore I traveled all over the world with him uh I did advance so I don't know for folks who who aren't super up to speed with how presidential campaigns work we're the ones you know going out and organizing all these big events I did Big rallies so that was my part of it you know Big Al Gore rallies all over the country uh continue doing that for a while all the way you know on and off up until President Obama uh for his first term so you know that was that was my part of it and was uh uh you know an amazing uh guy to work for and and still still in touch with him so that's the beginning of your political career let's actually backtrack um so you grew up in California right um just a little bit I my mom was in TV news and we left when I was two but uh she so we moved kind of from media Market to Media Market growing up I came back for law school a little bit around there but um so you know this was this was the 70s and 80s when you know women on TV were were unusual you know it was like you know men men are supposed to read the news so uh we you know we we you know Texas Louisiana Tennessee Illinois we moved around a lot well but that would have been cool right like my mom's on the news like everywhere you go you you know your mom's like a pseudo celebrity right was that a good thing or was it a bad thing did did they make fun of you or was it good oh no it was really cool uh and this was you know obviously before social media this is when you got your news from the local news every night you you know and then the next morning you read the newspaper maybe you'd listen to radio time in Newsweek once a week uh but no I got to go like to stories with her I got to go to interviews like that was a a cool thing growing up getting to you know be part of all that stuff how fun was was was any of that coverage political coverage uh not a ton I remember Robert r r uh doing an interview when he was labor secretary with her you know but like you know I I got into the act in in Fort Worth Texas I covered the opening of Sesame Place for her for her uh her station kxas so I got to interview Big Bird you know it was a a family uh kind of thing I would have killed for that now Wy you uh myself and Tiffany were all born in 1975 so we all feel the same when you say Sesame Place we know exactly what you're talking about man I am jelly on this side I am jealous I did I did not get that in the bio 75 that's fantastic yeah yeah so we're all so before we get into it too far how do you feel I mean we're almost all 50 this year you know is it treating you well yeah no how do you feel about are you okay with that or you know I'm not quite AARP yet we got some time there but uh um you know politics is the one thing where you know at at 49 you get to be really young yeah that's true that's a good point average age in Congress we're in our Prime yeah so so uh scooting forward again uh understanding is that you were also involved in the Howard Dean campaign and might have had something to do on that F that famous night oh spech Howard I mean the Howard Dean scream speech that was my event I was in charge of his what was supposed to be the Iowa victory speech it ended up being the speech where he finished third place and uh and yeah no I was standing right by Governor Dean uh there's a good story to it if you're interested in how how it yes yes please I don't I no one has ever asked me about this on the record so you know maybe you're you're make making some news here but but it was it was a money thing I was in charge of Al Gore's Iowa caucus victory speech four years before that and at that point I had 20,000 bucks for the for the event which was a lot of money you know in 2000 um but the D campaign gave me 2500 bucks and so we were just like begging people to do to do basic stuff to p pull off a 3,000 person you know speech so we didn't so when you give a speech in front of a giant crowd you want to have monitors shooting up at the speaker that was something I just have any money for and so he couldn't when he was when he was doing that it was so loud in that room he couldn't hear himself speak I don't think he I don't think he ever even understood that he did that until you know he heard it through the the the media box uh days later oh God spend more money so like when in a band if you if the monitors aren't working you can't hear yourself sing you don't know what the guitar player next to you is doing oh so he couldn't hear himself no yeah no that makes so much more sense and like in fairness to all this though he finished third place yeah that was kind of the story and then the scream thing was just a little you know St on top but but uh but yeah no they should have spent more money what a crazy story you heard it here first W Lon learned wow yeah lesson learned always for the monitor you know yeah but he's like what can I do you know what I mean I only had so much money watch I watched it live I thought it was great I was like I love this guy yeah oh I know I know um so uh so uh Al Gore Howard Dean Barack Obama uh fast forward to when you're in North Carolina uh in 2018 if I'm right you um ran and and want a a state senate seat yeah no just you know really pissed off that Trump had been elected two years before that and instead of venting all the time on social media you know all my friends and family said why don't you why don't you use your energy in a productive way and so you know I listened to Obama grabbed a clipboard started organizing and served in our state senate uh for for two terms before before coming to Congress so I have to ask I'm I'm I'm I'm dying to know what is it like first of all to run a campaign you've never done it before here you go where do you start I mean how does that even start well I mean it helps if you worked on campaigns uh you know to know how to do it I think politics really is just like 90% showing up uh so you know having that experience helps a ton uh it's a huge Advantage you know and you understand you know what you need to do so you know I had a pretty good idea of what you know my job was and what I had to do and you know for Advance you have to work really hard and that's a good training for campaigns it's it's a ton work it's really one of the hardest jobs you'll ever do the the the folks who work on campaigns work so incredibly hard uh it's it's just unlike anything else there is and real quick take us back to the very first time election night you win I mean I would equate it to a little bit like a musician signing a record contract for the first time it's like you did it you know but it but it's got to be even better when you're an elected official because everybody your your fellow neighbors said no you're our guy um what does that feel like take us back to that night no I mean it's it's an amazing thing it's an amazing honor to to be elected to anything whether it's the state senate or or or the US House of Representatives uh those the the first elections to First election to the Senate and then the you know the first election to Congress you know you'll never forget it uh an amazing amazing night uh and uh you know for FL you know moving to to the Congressional race you I ran in a 50-50 seat it was a republican seat uh we had no idea what was going to happen that night it wasn't it wasn't like these races where you know you know you know what's going to happen uh so that made it even uh even better uh you know for the Congressional race and and and you know same for my Democratic primary that really mattered for a state senate seat way back then but uh um you know you want to have the good pictures and you want to try to enjoy it that's what at least I tell their candidates like just make sure you take them moment to enjoy those good moments and you were one of only six seats that flipped in that 2022 election cycle weren't you that's right yeah Republican leaning seat um and you know we had to bite tooth and nail to get there uh I was you know we were we were constantly you know fighting for our lives with sort of the the big supporters like the dle C in Washington who just didn't think that we were going to win these seats and uh you know I was sort of like the last person in for for support from the dlec you know but we they got it you know we did our part and they came in at the end and we got there and Nick you I I've told you this I don't know if you remember but you were a big part of the success for that Congressional race in 2022 when I was you know I W of the Democratic primary I had like I don't know 5,000 Twitter followers and you did some post where you're just like hey look this guy is going to win this seat it's going to be a close race follow him and we went to like 50,000 Twitter followers just and that helped us nationalize this just absolutely crazy opponent who was totally unqualified and you know we got to get that message out and and you did it it was really you know your push on that was a huge one of the you know 10 things that really kind of helped get us over the top so thank you very much I'm grateful well our pleasure flipping seats and taking names taking names our our whole demcast crew got super behind wy's candidacy not just because it was a F aable seat but just because of the guy that he is in the campaign that he was running so it was it was pretty easy to root for you so uh let's jump a little bit forward to um time in cogress can we talk a little bit about that Jim you were you had some questions about his time I'm always interested before we get to the the real meat and potatoes I'm always interested in what that's like okay so you get elected to congress it's the big house now you're going to DC what is that first week like who shows you where the cafeteria is where do you know how do you know how to do anything um you know I I assume they give you a bit of a budget for a staff and all that are you overwhelmed uh and and can you finally go to your kids and go hey Dad's cool man you know I'm in Congress welcoming environment what does that like I mean yeah I mean I have a a nine and a 12y old right now and they're the perfect age for this cuz cuz this is really cool and and we we made sure to enjoy that stuff but but um you know for me it was a whirlwind we we spent 100% of our time trying to get to Congress and and we didn't waste time trying to measure the drapes before we got there so I had no idea what was coming stenny Hoyer called me about midnight on Election night and said he'd see me in Washington in three days and I'm just like what what are you talking about um you know and so you know they have an orientation uh you get a ton of support everybody is great one of the things like everyone kind of asks you know what surprised you about Congress for me it's always the people that I serve with just how much I I like them how well we all work together the Democratic caucus with hem Jeff an amazing group from the top all the way down you know folks who who are there to support each other that was you know one of the best parts about it but you get you know a really good budget to do the work you know you get sent there for it's close to 2 million a year so you get to hire a great staff you know you get to you know put out your you're you know get the the force you need to get out good messaging and and to help the constituents uh with good constituent services so those are the kind of things you spend a lot of time on setting up an office figuring out how to organize you know my my focus was constituent Services something I campaigned on so we did a lot of good work for for North Carolina families um and uh you know it's it it was and and and it was a little weird too um I voted for speaker of the house uh 15 times that's right my first week there so we had the plans of like you're going to SW do the swearing in and uh um you know and and the the after party and didn't happen we just kept voting and voting and voting no time to settle in I was gonna ask you and real quick and then we'll move on but but when you were running for congress are do you take chances ever like like you know like a lot of people play it super straight like don't think outside the box don't go on that show don't do this don't do that there's certain things you want to do and you don't want to do but like you know lately in a lot of races like you know uh some people oh kamla is like you know she didn't take enough chances over here like I don't know if that's true or not I I was curious did you feel like you took chances is that something that you don't do when you're running a race what is your thoughts on that yeah I mean my my congressional race we we took chances we we did a lot of things because uh in that election you know at the moment you know Biden was PLL you know that summer in 2022 Biden was just pulling in the toilets uh it was dragging a lot of Democrats down it was the the national environment was really bad for us and folks just didn't think we'd win any Republican any Republican seats so we had to spend early we were very aggressive uh and I think that's the kind of campaign you want to run you know we I I never pulled any punches uh you know I just went after my opponent over and over I mean I I think that's uh you know I what something I hope other candidates can understand and and and get because you know you got to have the fire in the belly to do this stuff you got to be fired up and if you're not you're just you're in the wrong job so that's you know just looking at my race the way I kind of approached it nice and it worked and it worked yeah and so one last question about your time in Congress um who is one uh Republican colleague that you had that you really enjoyed working with yeah you know so one of the things I wanted to do I wanted to serve on the house Financial Services committee and part of the reason was because Patrick M McKenry the the temporary speaker for for all of two weeks um was the chairman of the committee so that that was a legitimate relationship of one Republican that you know we got along really well and did some good bipartisan work on a number of things that was my you know he's from my home state of North Carolina and and so you know it's the the thing that I think just kind of stepping back from your question that matters for Congress you are serving in a body with 435 people uh you're not going to get anything done by yourself the lone wolves the ones who maybe are like really great on social media you know that's not how you get things done you get things done by building relationships so the the most important commodity in Congress are your personal relationships that's what I spent my time focusing on learning about Democrats Republicans everybody I could to to build those relationships so you know you do that you build a good Coalition and you can get things done obviously this wasn't a very productive Congress but you know we were able to you know do some of the the things that that you know I campaigned on and that mattered yeah that was wasn't your fault um so speaking of Republicans uh so in uh was it 2023 uh the North Carolina Republicans uh redistricted can let's talk about Jerry mandering here so what happened Wy yeah I mean totally to to paraphrase David dy's you know book rat you know that's that's what happened in North Carolina so you know to kind of set the stage on this you know I we we had a a four to3 Democratic Supreme Court in North Carolina the year before I got elected they had a a fight with the state legislature and they they M they they drew Fair Maps they didn't draw Democratic Maps they didn't draw Republican Maps they drew maps that would have that should have elected seven Republicans six Democrats and one that could have gone either way we won that one that could have gone either way and so we had seven Democrats and seven Republicans exactly what you should expect in a 50-50 state but in the same election that I won in 2022 we lost two Supreme Court races Statewide in North Carolina so Republicans had a 5-2 majority on the court they elected total partisan hacks who literally should just put Maga hats on when they're on the bench um and the Republicans knew they had a green light to do whatever they want to you know again using that word to rat the state and they did they drew maps that guaranteed uh 10 Republican seats three Democratic seats and one one more that could have gone either way that wasn't my seat uh mine got Jerry Mander into Oblivion Jeff Jackson Kathy Manning those were the other two and uh you know if you if you draw a map a certain way the technology is so precise it is it is absolutely a a science on that if you do it a certain way you can you can guarantee an outcome not even the best candidate in the world is going to overcome a massive partisan disadvantage you know when you're when you're doing the maps so my seat got Jerry Mander away and the big thing for why especially North Carolina matters is it didn't just change me going back to Congress didn't change a few Democrats in North Carolina it changed the the the future the course of our democracy that our our you our history changed because of those three seats the three seats that we lost in Carolina because of Jerry manding were literally the difference in a Jeff being speaker of the house today if we had those three seats you know I would have been Democrat number 218 in the in the US House and AEM Jeff would be speaker right now and things would be so different in Washington so if folks you know you want to put your finger on one thing that you we got to fix and that's causing so much dysfunction in Washington it's it's ending Jerry mandering 100% I I really appreciate your work on that I after the election I was despondent to say the least and so I decided to do something drasic and I jumped out of a plane and I heard you jumped out of a plane too I did where where did you do it I did I did it in Hawaii off a Northshore so how about you we have this amazing veterans group uh outside of Fort Liberty in North Carolina and I did it to draw attention to to the need to end partisan Jerry mandering I'd never done it way out of my comfort zone yeah but these guys offered it up and it was an amazing you know veterans nonprofit and I you know went T this is this is actually the the the guy in this group that that would jump with George HW Bush oh yeah every every time for his birthday yeah um so they had just been with his his family and his kids still do it every every year with these guys so they just come back from Houston anyway but that was I did so yeah we got that in common did you picture I did I got a picture and video did did you get all the you got all the video too as well yeah I'm sure oh yeah video pictures the whole thing yeah you got to do it would you do it again like you know same you know 10 times a day kind of thing like some of them do but uh it's good to do once another time you definitely but like it's terrifying it's terrifying it's terrifying I had my kids with me and they're but I went first and when we all got to the bottom they said you just fell out of that plane Mom I don't know I was going to back out terrifying I was more than happy to watch her uh from the ground I filmed it as they landed I was not even remotely going up I was like you guys are crazy I'm not doing that it's crazy no way um yeah yeah fantastic it's not it's not on my bucket list it's not on my bucket I haven't decided if I'm doing it again so I'm with you I'm on the fence about it yeah but you did it for Jer mandering and and do you think I mean did it help um and also what can we do what what is what is the average uh American what can we do about Jerry mandering well I I I think I think as as Democrats we got to step back and kind of look at where we are with all this and this is the the big point I think that really matters for anybody listening um first of all when you know there are some states where Democrats Jerry Mander and there are some states where Republicans Jerry Mander and there's some states where you have you know one seat in Congress so you can't Jerry Mander there's some states where you have states where you have independent commissions who do it in a very fair way but on on the whole Republicans do it a ton more than Democrats so right now in Congress we have a 16 seat Republican Jerry mandering Advantage wow um because they do it so much in States like North Carolina T Texas Florida and others you know Nashville and Tennessee like that's Jerry Mander into three pieces there should be a democrat in Nashville but because Tennessee Jerry Manders there never will be God um so we're down by 16 if you know we had the the ability to do it and did it the way Republicans did you know we'd have a majority in Congress right now uh if it was just even you know but so we're down 16 uh the nonpartisan Brenan Center if you really want to dig in you know that's their number uh and and then what's worse is when you look at the census in 2030 we're going to reapportion seats in Congress uh I think we're going to be down another 10 because my goodness so 25 seat Jerry mandering disadvantage so we have to do 25 seats better every cycle just to get to to to to 218 in the house uh because it's it's Texas it's Florida they're going to gain a ton of seats uh all the midwestern you know States in California are going to lose a bunch of seats so it's it's it's a really rough uh census so to to kind of go back to that question the thing we got to do is get rid of depart gerrymandering and we can do that without worrying about the supr Supreme Court we can just pass a bill through the House and Senate with a majority vote if you have a president willing to sign this into law and the only reason I kind of say all that stuff about where we are with Democrats is that's why I think folks should trust Democrats if you know uh Republicans are going to continue to to to Jerry Mander and Jerry Mander because they're winning we are we are losing at this at this in a national s way so we're the people that people should trust because just fairness gets us a much better place uh so voters in the middle we the ones who are going to draw Fair Maps uh because it's in our interest to do it uh you know first and foremost and you know that's why I hope they folks trust us when they say when I say you know if we're in charge we're going to fix this and do nonpartisan independent registering Commissions in every state if hem Jeff were the speaker my bill that that would have done that the fair Maps act would be you know would have passed the house you know by now and and Democrats have tried right wasn't um uh independent commissions were a part of the freedom to vote act too um that that was a a HR hr1 yeah first out of the gate so yeah watch what people do maybe we should make them all jump out of planes see and then and and and I guess just the last thing last point on this for all the folks out there who are watching yes the history turned as as wely said there because of the redistricting in in um North Carolina and that goes back to those two Supreme Court races state supreme court races so if those had if those races had gone differently everything might be different so we got to pay attention to local races that impact uh Our Lives obviously but Politics as well every race counts yeah elections have consequences you every single one um yeah I mean because I can imagine you know your average everyday voter uh this stuff about Jerry mandering just oh my God we were just talking about it the other day about one of the most disgusting things in my view uh in America is stopping somebody else from voting yeah or curbing their right to vote it it makes me it's like it should be up there with almost all these other crimes it just it's so infuriating and I just thank you so much for the work that you've done on Jerry mandering and uh and hopefully more people will will pick up that torch because it's treasonous well it's it's anti-American it's not you know come on you want to have a battle of ideas fine it's cheating yeah that's how I explain it to my kids you know it's just cheating yeah yep absolutely riing the game yes um so uh that it didn't work or it did if you're on the Republican side right they they got their uh H White House Senate house all Republican here we are we're in Trump 2.0 um so I I said on our first show we're expecting a fire hose of right it's just going to be non-stop yep um you put out an oped uh in maybe December that was really interesting where you talked about the idea of a shadow cabinet yeah let's talk could you uh yeah yeah could you could you elaborate on what that idea is because we found it really compelling first of all I love the name Shadow cabinet you know no yeah this this is the the one very specific very concrete thing we should have done we we we need to do we got to do because we knew Nick to your point it was going to be a fire hose of and every day it's it's not one thing it's not two things it's 20 things they're doing and we we absolutely have been caught flat-footed yeah you know we have a million different people scre around you know you know it's whack-a-mole with all the crazy stuff that's coming up and no one's really in charge you know we we are kind of a drift um as Democrats because you know we have great people but there there's no specific you know watchdog or Point person so what they do they've been doing this for a hundred years in Canada Australia you know the uh Great Britain uh they have you know as part of their loyal opposition the party out of power appoints um Shadow cabinet members so the the shadow part is something that the the the far-right guys just they hear Shadow and and they they lose it but you know maybe there's a different word we say like sunshine cabinet or like the shadow part has has been hard for Republicans to to understand but but basically it's just it's just getting uh you know Democrats in in Congress and the Senate and the house who are already paid to be there they don't get any extra money but they get a portfolio they get a a position in the cabinet uh to go one-on-one with whoever Trump appoints so you know they appoint Pete Heth as you know you know he he wins he's he's our he is now our secretary of defense you know we put Adam Smith from Washington as our shadow you know Secretary of Defense or or maybe we call it something else but every single cabinet agent every single Cabinet member for Trump gets a Democrat and so when we look to to to answer to have a watchdog to put our own good ideas forward we've got someone that everybody can go to and hear from it's just messaging 101 to do this it would cost us nothing it's easy to do and we have such amazing talent in the US House of Representatives in the Senate who could just eat it up with these jobs and uh um you know and that's how we organize our opposition and how we get good watch dogs and the one other point too that I I just think is was kind of a surprise for me uh but as I put this out there I talk to people who were Shadow cabinet ministers in in these other countries and one other thing they said too is it is a bonanza for leaks so everybody in these agencies knows exactly who to go to to tell them the crazy stuff that's happening and then we've got you know our our our lead person you know you know in opposition to Trump you know uh wouldn't again are good ideas but uh you know they know who to go to when you know to really say the horrible stuff that's happening what a fantastic Washington Post that was where the opinion piece was you can see it there you go to Wy nick.com my website has links my social media wly nickel has has links and uh you know you can read it but but uh it's all out there a lot of people have been pushing this idea too since we did it um and so it's it's the thing you know for people who are as as unhappy as the four of us are about the state of our democracy right now this is one thing we could do what a fantastic idea and we'll put a link to it in the uh in the bio of the of the video um have you brought this up to anybody currently in uh in Congress and what are their thoughts yeah I mean I shared it with with every single one of my you know colleagues in the house we sent them the we sent him the the piece uh they understand it it's it's just Congress is a sort of is a slow slow changing a slow place for change you have committee chairs who kind of feel like they have some jurisdiction there uh you know but you got to kind of break through that so it's it's one of the things that you know change isn't going to happen because you know a few people in Congress want it to happen it happens because people who are are listening to this podcast people you know who who are out there in the world make their voice heard and this is just one of those things where you want to get some you want to change the way we respond to Trump this is something that you know I hope people will will Embrace and and push and and ask their members of Congress you know why don't we do this it seem it seems like such a absolute no-brainer I was just going to say it's like the most utter no-brainer of all time the problem is the word Shadow fine call it mirroring call it twinning I don't care what you call it but like we have to do it and and the cherry on top is it would piss off Trump to no one every single cabinet secretary they would hate this yeah because they have someone to hold them accountable they don't want that they want us divid they hate it until they get to do it and then they're like that's the best idea ever so let me ask you this because you know as a party in general I've been a Democrat my whole life I just put out a a video a few weeks back about the first time I ever saw Jimmy Carter I was at the Portland airport when I was 5 years old I was on my dad's shoulders I waved at Jimmy Carter and I was hooked from that moment forward why are we moving so slow L to I mean this is a no-brainer come on you're in charge of this you're in charge of that keep an eye on that guy how hard is that so I guess I'm asking you is is is what what can we do what can we do as the Democratic party to kind of like we got to get faster at things we got to get moving because the Republicans are going like here this is what we're doing done next this is what we're doing done next you know it's just like you know I I mean you know what do we do man what do we do you know but we got to put our better ideas we have better policy proposals the the prescription we have to help you know middle class Americans is much better and we just are losing that messaging battle and and so you know we we we didn't do a good enough job we got to do a better job we got to talk about economic issues that's my focus what I think we ought to be doing as Democrats uh this is just one of those tools that helps us do that in in a in a much better way um but there's not one thing we got to do we got to do a hundred things right and that's you know I think you know it's it's hard to just put your finger on one thing but uh you know we we we need to convince folks that uh we're the party that's going to help improve their economy that's going to create good paying jobs and that cares about health care education the environment because Donald Trump and the Republicans in in the house they will do anything he says and their focus is tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy that's what they care about that's you know all this stuff it's distraction they want to just continue to gut you know the the the federal government in Washington and uh you know that's not helping any of the folks that I I used to represent North Carolina yeah you know and I think uh I think the new car smell uh of of Donald Trump coming back in and all that is going to wear off I mean I saw a lot of uh a lot of folks uh but also a lot of genzies and Millennials think oh he's the cool candidate I'm sorry that's what I saw they thought he was a cool candidate I can't I don't know why they thought that but they did it was messaging you're right um but I do believe uh it won't take too long before that new car smell wears off and it's like oh I mean it's already happening now I mean you know they're making that big joke about eggs it's like well eggs are like freaking through the roof already you know so uh they're not going to be the cool party for for very much longer and we need to swoop in and take our rightful place uh with the better ideas as as Wy uh is saying you know um I was curious really quick when you have um when you were in Congress did you ever agree with leadership and if you did how did that go uh I mean you know are they open to ideas are they like you know I'm sorry new guy this is what we're doing you know yeah I mean you know they were always super supportive uh of whatever you know you need to do to to represent the folks who sent you to Washington at least that's that's you know Nancy Pelosi that's hem Jeff and on down so you know if I had you know a different position on an issue and voted differently I I never had any you know um anybody upset about it and they everybody there understands you're there to represent the folks who sent you and um you know we just you know we we were in the minority too so it's a little different if you're in the majority it can get a little tougher um but uh you know we We There Was You Know virtually zero drama in my in my time in Congress you know everybody's rowing in the same direction and they still are right now you know at least as in terms of house Democrats everyone's United around to Keem Jeff we know we are so incredibly close just three seats away from making him the next speaker of the house that's what everybody is focused on winning these elections you know bringing back Democrats up and down the ballot uh to do that and um I'm super optimistic that that's going to happen in the next election the Senate is is a bit of a tougher map that's you know something that we certainly can talk about too if you want but you know the house I think we got a real good chance to get there in two years and it by your to your point you know um Jim it's it's going to be a pretty good midterm I think for us when people understand uh the damage that Trump continues to do to our country and and to the folks um who voted for him so so let's you you open the door let's talk about the Senate um so so uh yeah tell us about the Senate and 2026 and 2028 and what it how that might factor into any plans that you might have yeah well I mean I think you know right now we gotta we're down by three seats in the Senate so we gotta we got to pick up those seats I I you know I probably talk about X's and O's too much because I was a a staffer but you know you look at the you look at in the house you look at the seats that you have a good chance to win you in the Senate North Carolina really matters main matters in this next election we're going to have to hold two tough seats in Michigan and uh in Georgia but uh you know unless we can win states that Trump won by over 10 points so we're talking about Ohio Florida Texas uh Democrats in the Senate just have a 52 seat ceiling right now so the these races take on so much important so much extra weight North Carolina is you know one of those states where we got a you know we we won a ton of races Statewide as Democrats other than Trump and our governor our lieutenant governor our attorney general our Supreme Court in this last election so we're taking a good look at that Senate race that's that's a place where I think we have a really good chance to flip a seat and get rid of a um you know a spineless Republic like Tom Tillis who who continues to just do anything for Trump yeah but the question is are Americans and North Carolinians going to be lucky lucky enough to have a Wy nickel running what would you throw your hat in that racer he's not gonna answer that quick go but go ahead go ahead yeah no no I'm gonna Dodge that one um we're looking at it you know we're we're we're spending I'm going around the state talking to folks about it it's it's it's a it's something that you know I would love to continue the work I started in Washington but we're not quite we're not quite there yet uh for for for for me um but definitely taking a good look and and trying to um see if if uh you know I'm the right candidate to do it well I tell you you'd have the support of the dangerous ones we would be behind you all the way and we would do whatever we could to help with anything you're running for uh you're just uh you know it's just I can't believe that Jerry manderin but I wanted to ask you um what would you what advice would you give to somebody who is running for congress for the first time you know in uh I think it was a 2016 you know Bernie Sanders you know say what you will but man that guy got a lot of people excited and and just with the nuts and bolts of like he was like this is how you do it you know what I mean you go over here and then you know and it it made people go like I can run you know but I can I can do that what advice would you give to somebody who was like you know what maybe I could do that I I think if anybody who's listening I encourage you to run for office number one I I I say that to everybody um they they they they have some statistic that women are need to be asked six times you know more than men to do it so women you know I'm going to ask you six times right now to do it um but but get run for office you know the more people who do it the better I I think that's you know really important and literally anybody who's listening I anyone who's ever asked me for advice to sit down about running for office I always take those meetings uh you know because people did it for me when I first started so I I think you know people should do it it's it's very doable you know and and you go to Congress and you see there's all kinds of people that make it there you know Maxwell Frost 26y old you know he got elected to congress because he busted his ass he had a great message and anybody who's willing to just you know put you know every ounce of their energy into into a race like that you know you can it if if uh if you know you you you know have a a seat number one that you know maybe it's a prim a blue seat and it's a primary that you got to win to get there you know um but uh you know you got to you got to make sure that it's it's a winnable seat but if it is you know one way or another you know go for it or or or your sight's a little lower Congress is a big bite for most people you know state state house city council those are all great places to start too School Board anything you know we need Democrats running everywhere yes we do um just real quick and not to put you like on the spot but was there anything when you ran the first time you went I'm not doing that again that was a bad move uh that you could maybe pass along was there anything that you can help folks with yeah you know I don't have any specifics of sometimes though the the toughest thing is is just not you you don't have to talk all the time you don't always always talk about every issue so sometimes just just doing nothing is is is The Right Move um that's kind of a weird thing to get used to as a candidate you know you don't have to fight every single battle you got to pick your fights and and really people are really going to know you just for a few things so for me I really just try to talk about Jerry mandering every chance I get you know my hope is that if I continue to do that I I'll move the ball forward on that you know and then you know I picked some other issues that we spent a lot of time in Congress you know I talk about housing a ton that was my committee that I served on so focused on that but focusing I think matters you a lack of focus would be the the The Not So Exciting answer you know try to focus yeah yeah so um we're we're running up to time here uh we have uh a hotline for the dangerous ones that people have been calling into oh my God it's going a lot it's going the phone phone is ringing off the hook we're getting tons of voicemails um some people just call in and literally scream and then hang up some people you know have have just on a rant some Kelly from North Carolina North Carolina yeah went on a rant we put it on Tik Tok she went viral yeah over a million views on on on that content so um there's a there's a cathartic feeling on on the hotline for sure but there's a lot of angst people are hurting they're lost um they're not quite sure what to do I think part of what we're trying to do here with the Dangerous Ones is give people some ideas and give people some direction and some hope um so as we as we close it out here you know what what would you tell to your fellow Americans whether they're from North Carolina or California or Wisconsin or wherever um to that might help them sort of cope and move forward in a in a constructive way given where we are politically in the country you know it's a tough time uh and it's it's okay not to be okay you know it's I think you got to recognize that first I you know I sort of went through my my times with this with losing campaigns you know whether it was Al Gore and a real tough one you know back in 2000 to to these these Trump elections um you know and and I think just you got to find that place to put positive energy and that at least for me that's what I love about about uh what you guys are doing here the positive energy you put forward for this I think that's that's the number one thing you know we we are going to do it you know we we're not going to be the the the angry ones we're going to be the ones putting out positive energy I think that's the first place you start and that that for me helps a ton but uh you know it's I I I can't sugarcoat it though it's it's going to be a rough four years with with Trump in the White House and you got to just pick your fights focus on your areas you really want to try to to make a difference on but you know we're going to have you know elections this year in places like Virginia and New Jersey those are going to matter Municipal races are going to matter you know and the how we do in these these elections this year just a few months down we'll set the table for the midterms you know we do well it's a huge sign for two years from now you know we can get Hakeem Jeff as Speaker of the House and uh you know stop a ton of the horrible stuff that's happening and the only other thing that that I will just I guess end with on this as a one silver lining I can tell you from my time serving in Congress the House Republicans are a total mess they hate each other they are totally incapable of governing interesting and I think we're g see that play out I I they they have basically a one seat majority right now so like if somebody misses a flight to Washington right they can't move bills for the first few months you know in in three or four months it'll be like three people miss a flight uh but still like if one or two Republicans decides to do whatever crazy stuff they want to do uh things just stop and so you know I think you're going to see a lot of uh Republican chaos and confusion in the house uh and that's you know I I think you know one silver lining that that we'll see um just that they they they just suck at governing that that is a yeah no 100% that's great and folks if you want to call into the hotline you can do so at 503 212 4600 let us know what you thought of today's interview and uh and Mr nickel we could not thank you so much you've been so generous with your time and uh and and again you will forever be known as the very first interview ever on the Dangerous Ones y shirt in the mail shirt and and a mug is in the mail this has been such a pleasure oh thank you so much and and again if you end up uh if you end up running I'm just saying we will get behind you 100% great be back I'll make some news on your show yeah make some news on exclusive right here sir thank you so much you've been so generous and uh we can't uh we can't wait to see you soon thank you thank you thanks so much the shots been fired but the war ain't W these white boys with money better learn how to run the wild hit your back the bloods on your tongue you and me baby with a D [Music]

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